Redefining the Wine Lexicon: Q&A with Kae Whalen
For many of us, wine consumption has become a private experience, one that no longer involves a back-and-forth of questions between a server and diner (that may or may not go anywhere) or sharing a bottle with a group of friends and barely getting a proper pour. These days, the procurement of wine often entails the following steps: we walk to our local wine store; we make fleeting eye contact with the shop's staff; we scurry towards a shelf; we hide any insecurities about not being certified sommeliers by picking up a random bottle of wine with as much intention as a winemaker picking a ripe grape; we pay and leave, realizing the bottle of white may actually be a red.
Why all this fuss for something that's supposed to be fun? Since its inception, wine has been identified primarily by its flavors—the way its terroir expresses itself. But it has also always had a secondary, though perhaps more influential quality: the way it makes us feel. The importance of that quality has become more pronounced over the past year, as we've relied on wine to feel the distinction between day and night, between weekday and weekend. Confined to our homes, we've used wine to take us on a journey abroad as we've simultaneously felt nostalgia for our own trips. We've started redefining the things we want to find in every bottle.
“Since its inception, wine has been identified primarily by its flavors—the way its terroir expresses itself. But it has also always had a secondary, though perhaps more influential quality: the way it makes us feel.”
Wine, like art, is a subjective experience for everyone who drinks; a bottle shouldn't be stifled by a discrete set of flavors that may leave some wondering if their palate is completely off. Below is our first interview in the series, a conversation with Kae Whalen (they/them) from Los Angeles, California. Kae is a self-described steward of wines made through holistic, personal, and sustainable methods. They’ve spent almost a decade learning their way through the world of natural wine and worked at Kismet in Los Feliz as the beverage director. Most recently, Kae started a personalized wine subscription and education service, and co-hosts GAY WINE on Instagram, where, along with Sam Zimman (he/him), they offer candid conversations about natural wine and the producers behind their favorite bottles.
Wine Zine: You offer a wine consultation service that focuses on getting to know someone’s personal tastes. How do you talk about wine when you’re acquainting yourself with someone’s palate?
Kae Whalen: In terms of my clients, it’s a combination of industry people, some very enthusiastic wine drinkers, or sometimes a business asking for a consultation, so it really depends. Overall, I’m really process-oriented when it comes to how I talk about wine, though sometimes I’ll definitely lean on figurative language. A lot of what I try to do and what my clients are looking for is focused on education. Often, when you go to a wine shop’s website, you’ll see a description and find that the language is evocative, but that it doesn’t tell you a lot about the wine itself. I find that what can really open someone’s understanding of a wine involves explaining how it was made, talking about maceration, for example, and then demystifying the vocabulary. I’ll also talk a lot about context—the producer’s story, or the story of someone who mentored the producer, and the place the wine is from.
WZ: Have the conversations on GAY WINE influenced this?
KW: Definitely, the feedback goes both ways. Part of why GAY WINE came together is because Sam and I share a language around wine. I think that, for the most part, our goal is to democratize the education around wine a bit. The aim for now is for it to be a place where we can kick the can around and talk about wines we’re interested in, but talk about them in a way where it feels like it’s less of an insider thing.
“I find that what can really open someone’s understanding of a wine involves explaining how it was made, talking about maceration, for example, and then demystifying the vocabulary.”
WZ: I’m glad you mentioned the fact that the natural wine industry can feel pretty niche. Do you think that’s something people are aware of and can be conscious of so newcomers don’t feel excluded?
KW: I think it’s important to acknowledge that the natural wine community is a very diverse community when it comes to approach, and not even just demographically. There will always be people who do something because it feels cool as opposed to looking at the ethics behind it, and it’s easy to feel self righteous about drinking natural wine if you’re willing to ignore certain class implications. It’s necessary to interrogate the barriers to entry and hugely important for people to think about who they’re leaving out.
WZ: You have experience working on both coasts. Do you think the ways in which people talk about wine in California differs greatly from how it’s talked about on the East Coast?
KW: To be honest, I haven’t worked in New York for a long time, so I can’t fairly say what the current differences are. New York is definitely in its teenage years; the scene has been around a lot longer, regarding the conversation around natural wine, and I do think it’s more common to be talked down to there. In LA, enthusiasm goes a long way and I think people here have found really nice language to talk about wine. At this point, though, both cities have shown themselves to be really interesting and engaging, and I’m always excited to drink wine in New York and LA.
WZ: I know that at Kismet in LA, you’d often ask people how they were looking to feel about a wine instead of offering them a set of flavors. Was that a surprising approach for most diners? How did they react to it?
KW: Yeah, most people were pretty receptive. I found that a lot of people were ready to jump in when it came to an atypical approach. There were still people who would rattle off grape varietals, even though that’s not always the best way to approach things. Sometimes you’ll have a super light juicy Gamay versus one that’s more extracted and will offer such a different experience, so I try to go beyond that.
“...our goal is to democratize the education around wine a bit.”
WZ: Are there certain words you think have become obsolete in the natural wine community because of their overuse? If so, which ones?
KW: I have, for a long time, had an issue with the word funky—it irritates me! It means truly nothing and takes up space. I think the main thing I will say about this is to find language that makes sense to you and try to be empathetic in the way you describe things because not everyone has a wine background. There’s no such thing as objectivity in wine—that’s not real—but I also don’t want to hear about someone jumping into a pool of grapefruit peels. Talking about what the wine is and how it got there is my personal approach, giving people information they can use going into their next experience.
WZ: Do you think there are more accurate ways people can talk about wine when they’re at a wine store or restaurant trying to find a bottle they’ll enjoy? Can this be a more dynamic experience?
KW: This is something told to me by John Connolly at Diner, the General Manager at the time: go to the place that you like and learn about it. Really dig into a place. You don’t have to pull maps out, though that’s definitely a good idea, but expanding your palate—regionally speaking—will help you talk about what you like. Learn about what the regional style is or what sets a wine apart from the regional style and dig into the culture more broadly. My classes with people are often focused on traveling through a place and we’ll go from one region to the next, expanding the person’s knowledge about regional farming practices, or why Jura whites are the way that they are. There are an infinite number of things to learn about wine so when you focus on a place that you really like it can be less overwhelming. The World Atlas of Wine is so great, even if some of the writing leans conventional. The maps are super detailed and have lots of good information. It can also be as simple as finding producers that you like and Google-ing to an insane extent. That's how I got into the details of wine when I was starting out. I love a wine shop newsletter too. Subscribing gives you a constant stream of information and it’s a good way to stay on the pulse of what's going on.
Words by The Wine Zine’s Newsletter Editor, Khiara Ortiz